Všetky hlásenia
Hlásenia hry Odysea: Společně do hlubin oceánu
#151945: ""Incompatible Tasks" being abused"
O čom je toto hlásenie?
Čo sa stalo? Prosím vyber z nasledujúcich
Pravidlá: herné pravidlo nebolo dodržané
Podrobný popis
• Ktorá časť pravidiel nebola dodržaná v BGA adaptácii?
The game is meant to have hard task combos. Since the change to only one person needing to click Incompatible Tasks for a redeal, players are abusing the button and clicking incompatible just because they don't want the challenge.• Je možné vidieť porušenie pravidiel na zázname z hry? Ak áno, aké je číslo ťahu?
it's happened in many games• Aký prehliadač používaš?
Google Chrome v131
História hlásenia
4 jan 2025 20:35 • PurpleSunday • Problém zatiaľ nebol zopakovaný programátormi:
Crew is a team game. Incompatible tasks should be a team decision requiring at least two votes.
Alternatively, make the Fail Mission button easier to find.
Alternatively, make the Fail Mission button easier to find.
10 jan 2025 3:44 • Bentre • Problém zatiaľ nebol zopakovaný programátormi:
I've also seen this in a ton of games. It's a regular occurrence now someone hits incompatible on tasks that are fine. I know some of them have been accidental/misclicks, some of them have been because a player thought the tasks looked just a little difficult, and probably some were people trolling (hard to tell though, since it doesn't even tell you who clicked it).
It should definitely require more than one player, as it is, it feels like the equivalent of letting anyone flip the table whenever they want. Very disruptive to the game.
It should definitely require more than one player, as it is, it feels like the equivalent of letting anyone flip the table whenever they want. Very disruptive to the game.
10 jan 2025 19:12 • PurpleSunday • Problém zatiaľ nebol zopakovaný programátormi:
Was chatting with Disymetrix about this yesterday. Perhaps the best solution is a pop-up for everyone agree to, just like the Fail Mission popup in original Crew.
Please. Anything.
Please. Anything.
10 jan 2025 20:19 • Bentre • Problém zatiaľ nebol zopakovaný programátormi:
In a different bug related to the incompatible tasks button, boardgamearena.com/bug?id=67305, Tisaac (dev) says "that's exactly why this button is not a single player choice, because otherwise players will just hit it whenever they think it's impossible instead of actually trying to finding out how to do it".
So it sounds like the devs of this game understand why this is bad, and this is hopefully this just a bug instead of an intentional change.
So it sounds like the devs of this game understand why this is bad, and this is hopefully this just a bug instead of an intentional change.
10 jan 2025 20:48 • Tisaac • Problém zatiaľ nebol zopakovaný programátormi:
It's an international change. Previous system was not working, players were complaining over and over. I will likely add a confirm popup but keep the change
10 jan 2025 21:54 • Bentre • Problém zatiaľ nebol zopakovaný programátormi:
I am noticing people misusing this button in half the games I play. Just happened two games in a row: boardgamearena.com/table?table=613500403 that I played an hour ago, and boardgamearena.com/4/thecrewdeepsea?table=613517543 that I'm playing right now.
The bug people were complaining about was getting into a stuck state, where no game actions are available. If all available tasks are unselectable for the active player (e.g. "win no subs" makes it back around to captain as last task), the game could automatically fail the mission. That takes care of the stuck state without opening up "incompatible tasks" to abuse.
I think introducing something impacting so many games, to fix an issue that has 41 votes over 2.5 years, is not a good tradeoff. Even if you do not fix that other bug, I would rather have a bug that occurs once every 100 games than this that happens in every other game.
The bug people were complaining about was getting into a stuck state, where no game actions are available. If all available tasks are unselectable for the active player (e.g. "win no subs" makes it back around to captain as last task), the game could automatically fail the mission. That takes care of the stuck state without opening up "incompatible tasks" to abuse.
I think introducing something impacting so many games, to fix an issue that has 41 votes over 2.5 years, is not a good tradeoff. Even if you do not fix that other bug, I would rather have a bug that occurs once every 100 games than this that happens in every other game.
10 jan 2025 22:05 • Tisaac • Problém zatiaľ nebol zopakovaný programátormi:
It's not just about "being" stuck, it's about getting spammed by reports of players that do want to use the incompatible tasks button but failed to understand that everyone needed to click on it and/or saying it's way too difficult to have everyone clicking on it.
I agree that the current behavior is too dangereous because it's too prone to misclick, but with a clear warning also stating "are you sure you really think the task are incompatible ? Have you discussed that with your teamates", it's up to the players to use this with caution. The crew is a coop game, if someone wants to ruin the game by playing solo, he can do it in multiple ways, with or without the incompatible tasks button thing.
I agree that the current behavior is too dangereous because it's too prone to misclick, but with a clear warning also stating "are you sure you really think the task are incompatible ? Have you discussed that with your teamates", it's up to the players to use this with caution. The crew is a coop game, if someone wants to ruin the game by playing solo, he can do it in multiple ways, with or without the incompatible tasks button thing.
11 jan 2025 12:43 • PurpleSunday • Problém zatiaľ nebol zopakovaný programátormi:
So the pop-up will simply warn them, but they can still single-handedly swap out the tasks? It can't be a pop-up like original Crew that prompts a yes/no vote from all? That still doesn't solve the problem. It's trading the "being stuck" bug complaints for "ruining the game" complaints.
There are other solutions for the "being stuck" complaints - make the Fail Mission button more visible, add clearer descriptions to the Incompatible Tasks & Fail Mission buttons, create a yes/no popup for everyone to agree to just like original Crew.
I've loved Deep Sea since alpha testing it with you over 3 years ago. Aside from some occasional games of original Crew, it's the only reason I'm even on BGA. But it's not worth playing anymore if the Incompatible button will not change.
There are other solutions for the "being stuck" complaints - make the Fail Mission button more visible, add clearer descriptions to the Incompatible Tasks & Fail Mission buttons, create a yes/no popup for everyone to agree to just like original Crew.
I've loved Deep Sea since alpha testing it with you over 3 years ago. Aside from some occasional games of original Crew, it's the only reason I'm even on BGA. But it's not worth playing anymore if the Incompatible button will not change.
11 jan 2025 13:15 • Tisaac • Problém zatiaľ nebol zopakovaný programátormi:
It would still bé very annoying, a player could just click it over and over to completely pause the game and wake up everyone else so that they have to make a decision. There are 0 good solution for something that involves coop games where you have to make a decision.
11 jan 2025 15:00 • PurpleSunday • Problém zatiaľ nebol zopakovaný programátormi:
At least we can RT a player who does that. Can you show who's clicking incompatible so we can do the same?
11 jan 2025 20:04 • Bentre • Problém zatiaľ nebol zopakovaný programátormi:
Looking through the reports complaining about incompatible tasks, a few observations:
1) Most of the reports are actually talking about getting into a stuck state, where no task game action is possible and a player is stuck watching their time tick down or they have to abandon. There are other ways to fix this (like detecting when none are selectable, and in that case either auto-failing or making all tasks selectable).
2) Most of the reports are coming from turn-based tables, where coordinating everyone hitting incompatible is a much larger endeavor, and one player could be stuck alone while the other players are unaware.
This might be a case where a good fix for a turn-based game is not a good fix for a real-time game. In real-time games (which is all I play), this has never been an issue. Someone would mention it in chat and problem is solved once we all hit incompatible.
1) Most of the reports are actually talking about getting into a stuck state, where no task game action is possible and a player is stuck watching their time tick down or they have to abandon. There are other ways to fix this (like detecting when none are selectable, and in that case either auto-failing or making all tasks selectable).
2) Most of the reports are coming from turn-based tables, where coordinating everyone hitting incompatible is a much larger endeavor, and one player could be stuck alone while the other players are unaware.
This might be a case where a good fix for a turn-based game is not a good fix for a real-time game. In real-time games (which is all I play), this has never been an issue. Someone would mention it in chat and problem is solved once we all hit incompatible.
11 jan 2025 20:53 • Tisaac • Problém zatiaľ nebol zopakovaný programátormi:
That's true: RT and TB are very different and the consequences are very different as well.
11 jan 2025 21:41 • PurpleSunday • Problém zatiaľ nebol zopakovaný programátormi:
Excellent observation, Bentre. I technically play a fair amount of turn based, but only to not have to stress over the timer if I'm playing with a friend and we're both online. I can't imagine playing either Crew game truly turn based, but I can see where this can be a real problem there.
But now real time players pay the price for this fix. Is there a solution to help out the turn based players and avoid the abuse in real time games?
But now real time players pay the price for this fix. Is there a solution to help out the turn based players and avoid the abuse in real time games?
18 jan 2025 12:29 • PurpleSunday • Problém zatiaľ nebol zopakovaný programátormi:
Tisaac, can we expect any kind of change?
18 jan 2025 21:15 • Tisaac • Problém zatiaľ nebol zopakovaný programátormi:
When i will have some free time, yeah. A confirm popup + writing the name of the player that clicked on it
18 jan 2025 22:46 • Bentre • Problém zatiaľ nebol zopakovaný programátormi:
Another disappointing moment in the first mission of boardgamearena.com/gamereview?table=617067402 that I don't believe would be solved with a confirm popup. Tl;dr is that a player legitimately thought they were incompatible and intentionally hit the button, but if more than one player needed to hit the button we could have explained it was possible.
Tasks (all to one player) were:
* Win 2 in a row
* Win g6
* Don't open a trick with pink/green
* Don't open a trick with pink/yellow/blue
A very interesting set. Winning two in a row without leading a color means the second trick has to be won by leading a sub. But then there's the problem of not being able to dump the lead after winning your second trick, which means we should plan to do this as the last two tricks. And the commander likely can't take the tasks, since they couldn't dump the lead initially.
So we're left with the most likely winning strategy being:
1. Someone who has a sub, but isn't the commander, takes the tasks
2. Keep the lead away from the person with the tasks, while everyone else tries to play all their subs.
3. They need to win the second-to-last trick, and then lead their sub to win the last trick.
But unfortunately, before we could all start solving the puzzle, a player saw "two in a row" and "can't open a trick with any color card", assumed it was impossible, and rerolled the tasks. People must think they are using the button correctly, because the most interesting puzzles (that are challenging but not quite impossible) are always the ones that get reset with this button.
Tasks (all to one player) were:
* Win 2 in a row
* Win g6
* Don't open a trick with pink/green
* Don't open a trick with pink/yellow/blue
A very interesting set. Winning two in a row without leading a color means the second trick has to be won by leading a sub. But then there's the problem of not being able to dump the lead after winning your second trick, which means we should plan to do this as the last two tricks. And the commander likely can't take the tasks, since they couldn't dump the lead initially.
So we're left with the most likely winning strategy being:
1. Someone who has a sub, but isn't the commander, takes the tasks
2. Keep the lead away from the person with the tasks, while everyone else tries to play all their subs.
3. They need to win the second-to-last trick, and then lead their sub to win the last trick.
But unfortunately, before we could all start solving the puzzle, a player saw "two in a row" and "can't open a trick with any color card", assumed it was impossible, and rerolled the tasks. People must think they are using the button correctly, because the most interesting puzzles (that are challenging but not quite impossible) are always the ones that get reset with this button.
Pridať niečo k tomuto hláseniu
Prosím sem pridaj čokoľvek, čo sa zdá byť podstatné za účelom zreprodukovania tejto závady alebo pochopenia Tvojho podnetu:
- Iné ID stola / ID ťahu
- Vyriešil sa problém pomocou F5?
- Objavil sa problém viackrát? Zakaždým? Náhodne?
- Ak máš screenshot (dobrý zvyk), môžeš použiť Imgur.com na jeho nahranie a skopírovať sem odkaz na neho.
